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May
11

now women can oppress women too!! hurray!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/11/presbyterian-church-gay-clergy_n_860289.html

Comments

  1. Ladyjane Green says:

    I read this out loud, it resonated with both me and my partner, and all womyn who grew up hearing” girls dont do that” Your untiring lifelong fight against oppression is inspiration for those of us who appreciate the Under Dog! I cant believe u talked to Gloria Allred! Her book was a good read for all womyn with “balls”( If only our culture had a more feminist way of sayin that.) I wish she could have helped with that “Kristian Evil Goodness” brother of yours. Thank you for your story of Resistance….

  2. this is so true every word of it–you are a wonderful wonderful writer

  3. Ladyjane Green says:

    the bullying of today is more insidious and prevalent than any of us “oldies” can imagine. The nature of Social Media makes it so these kids today are bullied 24-7, 365, via smartphones, facebook, etc..Columbine is a far memoria to the new wave of junior social sadists running amok in our dis(union). The inability to communicate, the unwillingness to tolerate others who are different, and a social sanction on violence are all factors that are turning our schools into microcosmic versions of our fuct- up society.( Between grown womyn dressing and acting like their kids, and the kids dressing and acting like their “elders” theres’ some serious Freaky Friday shit going on as well..) Which brings us back to, Oppression of Womyn! Theres’ no doubt that giving and receiving the ” Arts of Oppression and Subjugation” are the some of the “unintentional but long lasting” lessons being taught in our schools today. Let the desensitizing of Amerikkas Youth begin. So they are War Ready upon time of their graduation. Cuz there sure wont be any jobs. War is the job now. When I grow up, i want to be a TSA, so i can put my hands all over people of all ages! Oppression Lessons begin at home, at school, and In Church!

  4. Here’s my personal story about the oppression of women:
    http://www.freewebsitemusic.net/bio

  5. bullying is not something that should be overlooked, its against the law. Also, it is damaging forever, and there is no excuse for putting up with it when you can now homeschool your kids. the teasing will not cease when her grandson hooks up with like minded people at all–this is just an empty excuse–your parents should have stepped in to halt your abuse too. making excuses for offenders is sick. the best thing she can do for her grandchild is to cease listening to the things you are saying here and to actually get off her butt and take action to protect him. telling kids to endure needless suffering is DISGUSTING.

  6. take a look at south america–they are turning more and more socialist and more and more prosperous and less and less of a chasm between oligarchy and poverty exists. It does work there and everywhere else on earth too–germany, france, italy, sweden, finland, venezuela argentina, uruguay chile peru–pay attention.

  7. -if your grandson is being neglected, and not protected by your daughter, then you need to call the police and report her. I would do this if it was my grandson–in fact school bullying did happen to my grandson and he is now homeschooled.
    I would NEVER sit back and allow anything to happen to my grandsons or to my own kids. telling a kid they are loved instead of removing them from abuse is upsetting to hear, and seems pretty sociopathic to me, NOT unconditional love whatsoever.
    You should go to the school and lodge a complaint there also. Kids knowing that adults are fighting for them helps them more than just sitting there saying you are loved–
    ps–none of what you write is on the subject of this thread.

  8. read the title of this thread

  9. urbanteach says:

    Lioness, I work hard to live free of the idea of absolutes, something you are suggesting. With respect to this thread the discussion is on oppression and women. I will attempt to blend the 2 here. Community run by women (even in its smallest of terms, including simply a group of girlfriends) are some of the most socialist societies I’ve ever lived under. Again, remember that I don’t speak in or live in absolutes, there is always a contra-argument here. So, in my experience as an oppressed woman, my tendency is to leave aside the argument that we can only exist if there is competition and fight. I also don’t subscribe to the notion that we, the human race, are completely fucked and that I must endure the status quo ‘cause change isn’t possible, it’s defeatist. Maybe this relates to your religious upbringing. In my schooling (catholic school) Mary was honored and her greatest virtue was her ability to endure suffering and pain… translation: a woman’s greatest virtue is to be a mother and endure suffering. I have chosen neither. Now, there are societies that exist in a combined state of capitalism and socialism, do some research on the Swedes. Last, some of our Sisters have taken the fight of oppression to result in being the oppressor, they are their own causalities.

  10. late nite listening, unplugging the patriarchy;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4vPyClAHqs

  11. And thank you so much for the advice! It is comforting to hear. That is what I try to do for my grandson everyday, his parents try to overlook this problem and I regret that I raised a daughter that would let their child be bullied and have little sorrow for it but that is the sociopathic world that we live in, I guess, that has very little regret for those who have to resort to killing themselves because they live life as they were born to be. It is just very challenging for me because even when raising my own children it is not a problem that I have had to endure but I tell him everyday that he is loved when he comes home. If love for you fellow human being and family member who you will love unconditionally is not something that the creators of this website feel that they agree with and just fall into the rest of the programmed, controlled, heartless society then this will be my last visit. Farewell friends!

  12. I understand the basic principal of socialism, it works in small tribal communities but when implemented on a larger scale has been disastrous, breeding communism. Our population as it stands, is too large for this to work. Any social structure on a small scale could be successful with the right leadership. We are just not evolved enough as a species to be motivated by altruistic means alone. And no I don’t think it’s cool for homeless children to live next door to rich billionaires. I’m not going to go there. The term socialism itself has been perverted, like the word dictator which was not always the evil term it has become. I just don’t see a good solution to our current situation. Since there has never been a time in recorded history burdened with such a massive population, it’s hard to find clues from our past useful enough to prevent future disasters.

  13. But, respectfully, how is this thread not about gays when the link you provided about gays being accepted into the clergy?

  14. I’m sorry to hear about your grandchild. My parents went through so much during my childhood as I was bullied terribly through the elementary and Junior high years. What helped me the most, was knowing I was always coming home to someone who loved me unconditionally, that is the BEST thing you can do for your grandchild. Love made the bad things bearable. The teasing will eventually ease up when your grandchild connects with others who are like minded. Things changed for me my freshmen year of high school when I met others who liked and accepted me, I was still messed with, but at least I wasn’t alone. Also studying martial arts is a great way to build confidence, I enjoyed meeting people away from school. I learned that not everyone was like those mean nasty kids in school.

  15. stay on the subject of this thread–its not about gays its about the oppression of women.

  16. But since you seem to be so great at giving advice Roseanne, can you tell me what to do as a grandparent when you have a grandchild coming home everyday from school crying that their being made fun of and being called a fag and then asking you what that even means? How would you deal with that when even the school won’t, and then be able to not feel such a strong hatred towards any religion that condone this sort of behavior?

  17. I have read every thing you say and actually agree with what you say, young lady! I never said this was anyone else’s website and have showed you proper due respect with everything just as I do with every one else! You make a lot of good points and I actually meant to reply with what your saying makes a lot more sense then the mainstream version of what is fed. I’ve probably been more out of the system of brainwashing since before you were even out of diapers! All I was saying though and is what I have learned from many years of experience is that is that Christianity is fed into centuries of defamation and rewriting that feeds into the brainwashing and forming those into brainwashing.
    But as far as what you said about Jesus, don’t misunderstand me hon! Don’t take me wrong and think that I am trying to disagree with you, I only brought up the thing about homosexuals because it makes me feel so bad for these poor souls that already have to go through so much hatred just for living life honestly and being true to themselves and then having to hear from the followers of a false and hypocritical religion that tells them its wrong to be themselves! Ya know, it brings me to tears just to type this but I have a grandson who has to go through this everyday in his 6th grade class and as a grandparent I would like to do ANYTHING to make this all better but there is nothing that I can do and this is why I feel so adamantly about the Christianity faith, its written by a group of hypocits that ignores that this even exists within themselves and then push others to even commit suicide because they can’t be accepted. I’m sorry you disagree with that, but that is truly how I feel on it, and I’m sorry that you disagree with me! :(

  18. My mom used to make me go to church every Sunday (A Presbyterian church). After sitting though the b.s., at the age of seven, I thought to myself, all they talk about is men (I’m fm) so I told my mom I didn’t want to go anymore. She said, “Okay, but you have to stay home every Sunday.” That worked for me.

  19. Lucifer Sam says:

    I love your take on Jesus being killed for standing by his mother… that is so true in the history of biblical female discrimination. Keep fighting, I hope you get to speak your wisdom to the world one day! Not only the Roseanne World, but the BIG one too!

  20. jesus was killed because he stood by his mother. she was raised in the temple from birth–the romans outlawed the worship of a female goddess–but Miriam tried to fight back–she had two women who were her most powerful students–one was her daughter in law, Miriam (Yeshua’s wife) and the other was named Deborah, Shimon Bar Yochai’s wife. they told their husbands what to do–their husbands ran away to begin to write on paper the secrets that Miriam the Priestess revealed to them about the meditation of David, the King…the Merkoba meditation–the meditation of the Chariot–is the real thing that matters in the story, and not the characters. free yourself of mind control–that is what david’s meditation teaches us to do. check out the stuff I say sometime, here on my own site—it’s not ‘your daddy’s’ website. I subscribe to nothing of a patriarchal mind controlled program, in fact, i am all about exposing it, because it is the enemy of all women and of female divinity and of Jah-shem.
    free yourselves from mental slavery–bob marley

  21. gender is important because it is completely overlooked if its about women, or Priestesses. that is not allowed into the mind at all–because it cracks the programming of women. You keep going on about the gay thing, and that is not the issue at all–but gay men’s issues are more imp. than Goddess issues to you, as is to be expected in this world called patriarchy. but–try to pick up on what i am saying and let it sit in your mind for at least one full minute.

  22. i was thinking that’s the image that blue beam would project into the sky, then i realized they already project that into our brains via media etc. until we are phallocentric in our thoughts. move it up a few chakras i say..

  23. LOL! You never hear about any of that because among other things that is what is repressed in Christianity. The entire religion has been degraded over the centuries and tries to uphold a sociopathic homophobic/sexist hatred for absolutely everyone and tries to push ways of life that were NOT even acceptable 2,000 years ago on modern day. Like for instance the bible, or the third book, Wayiqra, mentions:
    “Any man that lies with another man shall be punished to death”
    BUT the book of Deuteronomy at 22:20-21 also states to kill all women who are not virgins on their wedding night, so what’s next, oppressing and segregating women again too?
    Also, as far as homosexuality goes in biblical times they had weird views on it anyway. Take the ancient Roman soldiers for example, they were gone at war for YEARS at a time and would often pleasure each other sexually while away because their men and ALL men are like dogs. Gender isn’t that important when their faced with the possible threat of a couple of years of celibacy—-hell the male mind can’t even go more then 10 minutes without thinking of sex.

  24. my teacher does

  25. Moon Shadow says:

    “…big penis in the sky.”
    Time to rewrite the classic “Spirit in the Sky”?
    “…gonna take me up, to the PENIS in the sky.”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ2UROhv-PI
    Prefer Nina Hagen’s version to Norman Greenbaum’s original.

  26. Lucifer Sam says:

    I was like you need the 23rd volume!!! I was about to ask if you needed me to send it to you haha. Glad we cleared that up. Do you read arimaic btw? I had to teach myself lol.

  27. yes–you are right–thanks for the correction–22 letters was what i was thinking

  28. there is no proof that he ever existed at all– outside of the Talmud…that is the only place besides the ‘new testament’ that collaborates any acknowledgement of him whatsoever. The stories we have heard of him are just myth–but the Talmud gives us clues, and so does the Zohar. His actual name was Yeshua, his wife was named Miriam, and so was his mother. His best friend was another student of Rabbi Akiva as was he, and his friend was named Shimon, his wife was Deborah. together, these two men, yeshua and shimon fought the romans and yeshua was killed by them. shimon escaped and survived by hiding in a cave for thirteen years. They passed on hidden rites and information of the temple to people who were not of the priest class—that is why they were both hunted down. the ‘legend’ of Yeshua (jesus) is actually the story of TWO men, not one, and the Zohar is the information written down and smuggled to spain that they were teaching the common women–both of their wives were priestesses and so was Yeshua’a mother–the last of the priestesses of the Hebrew Temple. that is what the whole story is really about–forcing women out of the Priestesshood, and replacing it with an all male Priesthood–this is how the Hebrew Goddess was defiled and the religion of modern day judaism as well as christianity invented–christianity kept the image of Mary, but later degraded that too–until she became not a goddess, but a symbol of submission to a big penis in the sky.

  29. LOL!

  30. Moon Shadow says:

    “I couldn’t wrap my head around the balance of dogma, my thoughts and feelings and my sense of reality and what is true.”
    WORD!!!
    My family is predominantly catholic, so I feel free to speak (aka BASH) more on the little I know of this most dangerous group with a history of raping and pillaging. Now their in the business of creating a fascist govt here in America! (thanks Supreme Court pedo-loving catholic justices!)
    Nothing better than kneeling (and/or bending over if your an alter boy) and listening to the “word” tell me I’m evil, a sinner, and I must CONFORM to be accepted by JESUS and “father”. Love the sinner hate the sin is FUCKED UP!! Guess what, the sinners (gays) don’t need your acceptance, but you need OURS if you wish to remove the mind-control program.
    In my opinion, Jesus was a false prophet. The walking on water, water into wine, resurrection after death, crucifiction… blah blah blah. Wasn’t original then and it isn’t original now. Jesus “borrowed” from history to create a regurgitated story told thousands of years in places such as Egypt before his birth/death.
    (((BULLSHIT))) cough

  31. Lucifer Sam says:

    23 volumes

  32. Moon Shadow says:

    Thanks for the detailed definition Urbanteach! Most are so quick to view socialism as communism. Roseanne’s quick definition is dead on.
    SOCIALISM = SHARING
    CAPITALISM = HOARDING
    I will take socialism, ALWAYS. I have compassion for others and do not choose to embrace a society of xstians and other organized religions who go against their own JESUS, who was a SOCIALIST!!
    The best chance I have to experience this is to create it for myself where I live. I share when I have extra, I give food and shelter and transportation and work to those when I can provide it.
    I refuse to be a passive participant in my socialist views, but prefer to call the LIARS and false-worshippers out on their BULLSHIT.
    Not saying I don’t believe Jesus was bisexual, just don’t give a shit. Goddess is in my heart and my meditations and actions. It is easier for the pedophiles and rapists to be xstian (especially catholic), where they only have to CONFESS and “father forgives all”. I guess when you worship a penis god it’s the old “boys will be boys” reaction.
    BARR 2012!!! BULLSHIT IS BULLSHIT!!!

  33. some say, their daughter is saint sarah, from southern france. maybe. we need dna testing to prove any of this stuff.
    also , i thought we were looking into a mix of socialism and capitalism.

  34. Ladyjane Green says:

    damn, ive never heard of that…..Raised something from the dead, indeedy! Now thats gotta be the strangest “danger-fag hook up”*on record. we definitely never heard of this in my “Fear of an Angry Father” kind of religious education that I received.( on bended knees.) Nothing good can ever come from being constantly on your knees! Lol, unless your gardening, or cleaning, or trying to find a contact!
    *Risky Gay Sex, performed
    in public, a la Central Park NYC, Bushes of Golden Gate Park SF or any highway underpass. where u see plenty of cars with no other real attractions.

  35. Where is the proof that Jesus was married and had children? I’ve heard that it was possible that he married Mary Magdalene but I don’t believe that anymore then I do that his mother was actually a virgin. I mean its very possible that his father was very gullible though, what man rather it be biblical or present day actually has a brain anyway. Jesus was an unmarried man who did not uphold family values. He traveled with a bunch of men and enjoyed an especially close relationship with one of his disciples, John. There is also a manuscript that a Jerusalem monastery found that strongly suggests that Jesus had a homosexual relationship with a young man that he raised from the dead.

  36. jesus was indeed a straight man and was married and had children. He was a rabbi too, and he also wrote a book called the Zohar (22 volumes as a matter of fact).

  37. yes you are missing a lot–do you prefer a society run by rich guys? socialism means sharing, instead of hoarding. do you think its a great thing that rich billionaires live next door to homeless children? read up on things yourself.

  38. urbanteach says:

    Sorry that you didn’t have a social studies teacher that applied the idea of academic freedom to his/her curricula. This is how it is defined for my 8th graders when we start a unit on movements within the U.S. which included for a spell a large amount of pro-socialist arguments. Hope it is helpful and not suggesting I am answering for anyone else.
    “Socialism, in its many philosophical and social scientific manifestations, is grounded in the idea that the best of all possible human societies is one based on cooperation and nurturing, rather than competition and greed. As a guiding philosophy for organizing family life, socialism has widespread support, even among conservatives. Nevertheless, socialism is a protean concept: defined, for social scientific purposes, in many different ways — presenting different faces, as it were.”
    I think that you are referencing a more marxist approach which defined a time between capitalism and communism. Only one short-sighted view of this ideology.

  39. urbanteach says:

    Interesting, makes me think: “I disagree. I don’t think this has anything to do w/ “acceptance”, but rather assimilation. No thank you.” I haven’t been a member of an organized religious tradition in over 20 years, I couldn’t wrap my head around the balance of dogma, my thoughts and feelings and my sense of reality and what is true. Somehow eating fruit off the tree of knowledge is interpreted and taught as a bad thing, confused even my adolescent mind.

  40. Not to change the topic or anything cause I actually agree with your distain of organized religion but I can’t help but notice you sling the term socialism around in your comments a lot. Can you elaborate on what your definition of socialism is, because every thing I read about it is horrifying. I don’t need the government to do everything for me, think for me, feed me, give me entertainment, wipe my ass for me, perhaps I am missing something here?

  41. Moon Shadow says:

    “I think its the start of ending the hatred a lot of churches have for the LGBT community, and really would help reduce hate crimes ..”
    I disagree. I don’t think this has anything to do w/ “acceptance”, but rather assimilation. No thank you.
    Now we have women, gays & lesbians with their own spin on the good book of oppression and mind control.
    Women, gays & lesbians need only wake up to the good old Church of Common Sense, atheists welcome! No need for the catholic confessionals, the members of the Church of Common Sense PRACTICE and LIVE their SOCIALIST values, rather than RAPE children and CONFESS their sins and are “absolved” by their “FATHER”. WTF?!?!?

  42. I think its the start of ending the hatred a lot of churches have for the LGBT community, and really would help reduce hate crimes because really there is only 2 reasons that someone would hate gays.
    1. Their closeted and insecure about themselves.
    OR
    2. They fall for some religious bullshit that says its wrong to be attracted to the same sex and if the church changes their views then eventually their followers will too.

  43. Christopher Michael Ward says:

    I guess this is good news.

  44. Christopher Michael Ward says:

    Now gays can be clergy is ggod news?. I guess it is.

  45. Christopher Michael Ward says:

    I do not see the good in this, someone help me.

  46. The way I see it is after this though is its not even women they are oppressing anymore but just the straight female lifestyle, which doesn’t exist anyway—in some way we’re all at least bisexual so I just look at it through they way that maybe the Presbyterian Church is one of the few finally promoting honesty. LOL!

  47. Seems very fitting that they would allow gays and lesbians into the clergy because well lets not forget that even Jesus wasn’t a straight man. There’s been many small mentions of his male relationships so why wouldn’t they finally allow members of the sexual orientation of their founder into the clergy. Maybe its just a matter of time for women though.

  48. urbanteach says:

    Unfortunately, the Catholic Church still is deep seated in its view on the role of women and still doesn’t allow for the ordination of female priests. Social and cultural bias continues to infiltrate its doctrine. As it was conveyed to me directly and indirectly Eve caused the humankind’s fall from grace and all women as a result are fucked (so to speak), you can see my problem! I appreciate the reference and interpretation of the role JC played in terms of whom he hung out with. I have recently been exploring my other half-Judaism and at my brother’s urging have been reading and listening to Aviva Zornberg a pretty interesting perspective on torah, conservative and she is an English major/scholar, such a refreshing analysis for me! If interested check out her discussion of Exodus on public radio here is a link :)
    http://being.publicradio.org/programs/2011/exodus/

  49. Ladyjane Green says:

    We know that he was at leasBi-friendly (the apostles, please, can u say sausage fest?) and person specific( Mary Mags) Please dont forget our “Lord and Savior” loved them Whores! “Let he who is without sin amongst u cast the first stone” Im not a big fan of the Catholic church, you gotta at least respect an open mind, shit, JC even ate with theives, cripples, children and, Tax Collectors! A man o’ tha common peeps. Letting Womyn into these previously all male institutions is a sign of the times. What it does bespeak is the growing Female Majority in the general population.
    If U want Womyn to listen, A Womyns Voice is most effective!
    BARR2012

  50. can’t let the gays stray from the flock. does this mean it will be accepted that the sun of the man was bi?